Converting a Slicktop NA to TT.

Discussion in 'Member's Garage' started by samuraigecko, May 1, 2010.

  1. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    Hello Everyone.

    I have some major plans for my Zed which will be happening all this Autumn and winter. I am converting an NA to a TT. Not too uncommon but I am doing it in a slightly different way.

    This is what my Zed is curently.

    1993 SlickTop NA Z32 with the usual deletes done. No other real mods to the car at all.

    Here is what is going to happen to it:

    Engine comes out and . . . . . .

    Auto TT cams added to reduce the DCR to acceptable limits.
    Cometic 1.2mm TT head gaskets (NA gaskets are 1mm stock, this should slightly reduce DCR also)
    Stock Z32 Turbo's
    Water pipes (ones near the EGR location) from a TT for water to Turbo's.
    Braided oil lines tapped into block for the turbo's
    New gasket set.
    New pumps
    New pulleys (lightened GFB ones)
    Gates timing belt.
    Stainless turbo manifolds.
    Stainless dumps and catback.
    High flow cats (not sure which yet)
    New radiator (not sure which yet)
    Intercooler and piping of course.
    After Market boost controller.
    Chip my NA ECU. (cos boost controller is aftermarket anyway)
    Xtreme clutch kit.
    Gearbox oil cooler.
    Viscous fan mod.

    Do I use stock wastegates?
    I am using stock TT bits as it will only be boosted to about 10 or 11 psi because the CR is high already and I dont want to go past a boosted 14:1 ish DCR. This will help me keep the torque properties as I understand it. (if Im wrong inform me please)

    Anything that can be taken off and Chromed / Pollished / Painted . . will be.

    Cosmetics . . . . .

    VeilSide steering wheel.
    Globe X Sparco shift knob
    Sparco embossed Orange and Black leather interior.
    Dual round head lights OR eyelids, not sure yet.
    Venom 6 pot Tail Lights.
    Brazillian from Gonzo . . .
    VeilSide "elegance series" gauges.
    Timing belt half cover.
    Dash style Gauge pods.
    "Team Orange" quick release.
    300k cluster with orange rings.
    Slam Pannel (painted in the same orange of course)
    "Z" Radiator bracket.
    HID conversion.

    If anyone has any suggestions feel free to add them.

    I will post some pics of how she is currently very soon so you can see the comparison. I will also be giving update photos of how the build is coming along.

    All of this will be being done at "The Zed Shed" (He is O'connor Television on this forum)

    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  2. Chrispy

    Chrispy Pretentious Upstart

    Stock wastegates will be fine :)

    But I would NOT be using stainless exhaust manifolds unless they are made from steam pipe. They WILL crack. Nothing wrong with stock, port them out a bit if you like.
     
  3. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    Good to know because I have stock manifolds coming with some stock turbos that I bought, something less to spend. Cheers for saving me some $$$ :)

    So far I have found some Auto TT cams and some stock turbos that need the seals done but come with the manifolds and some other stuff. I also managed to get the two water pipes that go near the old EGR location too.

    So if everything goes well it should happen a little quicker than I thought . . . .
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  4. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

  5. mafi-zed

    mafi-zed the resident hoon

    you'd be better off just dumping the tt motor in.. in the long run
     
  6. silver300zx

    silver300zx New Member

    why would you change your cams , couldnt you just lower your boost to get the same effect
     
  7. a2zed

    a2zed Guest

    The idea in turboing the NA is to do it with the least ammount of messing around possible. If you are going to the extent of changing cams and head gaskets, it is only a few more bolts to whip the sump off and throw in TT pistons.

    I will not be changing anything when ours is done, if the heads are going to come off for whatever reason, it will get TT pistons. There are heaps of pistons kicking around, put them in while the heads are off.
     
  8. Western Z

    Western Z special member

    if this pistons are not changed wont this make a compresion problem given NAs have a higher compresion.


    .
     
  9. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    To TT a motor it has to come out of the engine bay anyway

    (unless you want to jack up the engine away from the mounts and bolt each side on separately).

    Anyone with good knowledge please answer these cos I do not want to go BOOM . . . I love my Zed

    1: So if I was to do new head gaskets I might as well forget the TT auto cams and drop the sump and put TT pistons in?

    2: If I was not to do the head gaskets and just put the TT auto cams in does this make the DCR drop to within acceptable limits as per the statistics given in my "compression ratio questions" thread or is this misinformation that will lead to me having a great Zed for 50,000k then BOOM?

    3: With most cars I have seen my father in law work on, he can just drop the whole crank/piston setup out from the sump. Is this the case with a Zed?

    4: If I was to do the "drop out from sump" thing, wouldnt I do the head gaskets anyway and also new rings (of course)?

    5: Assuming there is no bore damage (pretty sure there is none as she drives extremely well as is) Would I be buying stock size rings in this case or does an NA have a different bore size (doubt it)?

    6: What is the stock bore size (I thought it was 88mm but I may be wrong, please correct me if this is the case)?

    7: drz400y: are you putting TT auto cams into your NA/TT build to achieve the reduced DCR?




    I just want to get some of this info right so I can do the work and thus the thread I have created here . .

    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2010
  10. a2zed

    a2zed Guest

    Our engine is not getting disassembled at all. Will do 10psi boost easily with a max safe limit of 14psi.

    Pistons cannot be removed from the bottom

    Standard bore size is 87mm

    Changing the head gaskets will drop the compression approx 0.5-0.75 of a point, yu may go close to 16psi safely with TT head gaskets.

    If you are pulling the heads, put in TT pistons and head gaskets.

    Give the bores a light hone and put the standard size rings in, assuming your engine has not be overbored.
     
  11. zxhoon

    zxhoon Giant Ginga

    I havent got the link handy but there was someone over at tt.net that was running a turbo NA and decided to increase the boost a little and it went bang pretty quick after that.. he discovered the reason was the wrist pins, thinner on an NA compared to TT.
     
  12. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    Yep, from what I have researched thats usually the first thing to go if you boost too high on the NA. The idea is to find a good place and leave it there without being tempted to turn it up. With charge temp control 10psi should be fine.
     
  13. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    Motors?

    I have sourced a TT motor (crank, rods , pistons, heads, etc etc etc)

    If I was to put all this crap into a NA block I wouldnt have to do that GB shimming thing right? Just use a TT bottom end basically?

    Then I can safely (lol) boost the shit out of it right?

    heh, thx for the knowledgeable replies in advance.
     
  14. a2zed

    a2zed Guest

    What g/b shimming thing? Assume you mean shimming the starter for a TT clutch and flywheel. If so, this has nothing to do with the engine.
     
  15. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    Right. But if I put a TT motor in (not converted) then I would have to do that yes?

    If this is the case then it is easier to drop a TT bottom end into an NA block right?

    I dunno . . .

    This is the way I thought it went.

    If you put a TT motor in an NA, the fly wheel / clutch / starter needs to be modified somehow.
    I can put a TT bottom end into a NA block though (or just the pistons) and not have to do this.
    All I would have to do is tap the block for oil lines to the turbos (or so I thought)

    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  16. Chrispy

    Chrispy Pretentious Upstart

    Nope, it just depends on the flywheel.

    NA fly with NA gearbox = do nothing

    NA fly with TT gearbox = shave 3mm off the starter motor mounting face

    TT Fly with a TT gearbox = do nothign

    TT fly with a NA gearbox = 3mm spacer plate on starter and possible clearancing within the bellhousing to let it clear.
     
  17. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    Couldnt I just shove the TT bottom end into the NA block using all other NA components though? and not have to space / shim anything?

    Or if I put the TT bottom end in I have to use the TT fly?

    or perhaps just use the TT pistons and rods on the NA crank?

    Is there an advantage to either the TT or NA fly?

    Peace :)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  18. Chrispy

    Chrispy Pretentious Upstart

    You can use whatever internals in whatever block (as long as they are within servicable specs), you can use whatever fly with whatever crank or bottom end.

    TT fly is larger, has a 220mm contact face for the clutch as opposed to 200mm for the NA fly. Maybe 240mm vs 220mm, I can't remember for sure.

    TT clutch's will take more torque before they start to slip due to a higher contact area. However there are plenty of clutch options out there for the NA size fly as it's the same as the Skyline ones. A brass button 5 puk clutch on a NA fly will handle whatever power you try and get out of stock turbos.
     
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  19. a2zed

    a2zed Guest

    Na and TT cranks are interchangable, you can fit TT pistons and rods to your engine.

    You also don't need to drill and tap the block for the turbo oil feeds, The oil pressure sensor T will need to be changed to TT and on the driver side, there is a NPT plug in the block, remove that and screw in the oil supply elbow.
     
  20. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    Been a while since ive said anything.

    Ive got some parts I have needed coming shortly and will be getting her all going again soon.

    Still doingh the NATT motor and been looking into cooling the charge temps in further detail.

    What do people here know about or have had experience with . . . . water to air intercooling. There is a guy in Sydney who has been using it rather successfully on imprezza's and the system he is using is top mount so he is even getting a bit of heat from being mounted above the motor. My thoughts are slightly different if I were going to go this way. My choice would be to mount it to the sides where possible or if possible to avoid soaking any heat from the engine as a top mount would do.

    I know most people are going to JUST say "go FMIC and be done with it" If this is your response dont bother answering.

    However, If your response has something to do with WAIC Vs FMIC or other intercooling or information on using or experience with WAIC then please feel free to contribute any info you can provide.

    Peace :)
     

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