Wheel Shake

Discussion in 'Non Technical' started by graysonvario, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. graysonvario

    graysonvario New Member

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    Hubcentric made by BSA in Nsw for my car
     
  2. scottyoz1962

    scottyoz1962 Active Member

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    Nah it's only the loose nut behind the wheel that's shaking :D
     
  3. Fists

    Fists Well-Known Member

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    Do you know if they checked balance when they made the spacers? If they're chunky might be enough in them to add a wobble.
     
  4. graysonvario

    graysonvario New Member

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    Not sure mate
    I'm guessing that would just be standard protocol
     
  5. Nick89

    Nick89 Member

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    From my understanding the slip on spacers are worse for wheel wobble but even with bolt ons just a couple of grams out will cause it to shake
     
  6. Fists

    Fists Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen balancing isn't standard practice for many aftermarket manufacturers, you can generally tell by looking at them if they've been balanced (dimples drilled out or weight added) but can't tell by eye if they need balancing. Maybe borrow some wheels that fit without spacers and if that helps and you want to keep the current wheels look at getting the spacers balanced.

    Could still be bushes and they should be fixed either way but worth keeping the spacers in mind.
     
  7. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

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    It seems that you have combination Spacers/Adapters and that simply INCREASES the chances of them being badly fitted/poorly made. You need to have these individually checked and balanced to ensure that they are running "on centre". If they are even slightly out of shape/round they will be impossible to use safely.:eek::eek::eek:
     
  8. graysonvario

    graysonvario New Member

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    Thanks guys I think I'll live with the shake till I get new wheels
    Hopefully not long now
     
  9. Anti

    Anti 14.7 x 14.7 = 44.1

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    This isn't right;

    Hub centric means that the spacer locates itself to the centre ring protruding from the hub through the rotor, through which all weight is meant to be transferred. The studs are only there to hold the wheel in place, the force is meant to go through the centre hub /centre bore.

    Both slip on spacers and bolt on spacers can be hub centric or non hub centric. So long as you have enough stud to bolt the wheel on whether they slip on or bolt on doesn't make any difference; all that matters is that they're hub centric.

    When you get stud pattern adapter spacers made up like I did, you don't just need to adapt the stud pattern you also need to adapt the centre bore too. My spacers are 5 x 120 with the correct BMW centre bore (I forget what it is) on the "outside" (I guess you could call this on the male side) while on the "inside" (back side) they are recessed to receive the OEM centre bore on the hub they're bolted up to.

    Also available are what're called "hub rings". These are used when you're bolting on an after market wheel with the correct stud pattern, but a larger centre bore than the one your car has. A hub ring slips onto your current centrebore, and when the wheel is then bolted on fills the gap between the two. Conversely, some after market wheels can have smaller center bores than the car they are going on to and must be machined out. This happened to a buddy of mine on this forum when he fit up his Autostrada Monzas.

    Centre bore on a Z32 hub:

    This protrudes past the rotor and "into" the back of the wheel.

    [​IMG]

    A hub centric slip on spacer:

    Note that the centre bore is reproduced

    [​IMG]

    A hub centric bolt on spacer:

    [​IMG]

    Non hub centric slip on spacer:

    [​IMG]

    Non hub centric bolt on spacer:

    [​IMG]

    Most hub centric spacers will protrude the same hub size as they are machined to receive on the other side, it only gets tricky when you're adapting stud patterns (where centre bores are more likely to vary). If you were putting say Ford wheels on your Nissan though, it would pay to check up that the centre bore is the same diameter (and not just assume it is because the stud pattern is the same). You don't want the studs taking all the force. I know people that roll around like this and get away with it, but for obvious reasons it's worth the very minor hassle/cost to keep the force transfer how it was intended.

    One last clarification - there is absolutely nothing wrong with slip on spacers so long as they are both hub centric and allow enough stud protrusion for the nuts to thread on adequately. If this is the case, in practise (bar legal views) they function identically to a wheel simply having a lower offset. So either use small slip ons, use large slip ons and fit longer studs or use bolt ons.
     
  10. Anti

    Anti 14.7 x 14.7 = 44.1

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    And I should add something there - much like some slip on spacers being thin enough to leave sufficient stud protruding, some are thin enough to leave sufficient centre bore protrusion. Thin slip ons such as the one in the far right non hub centric slip on picture could be an example of this.
     
  11. lovmyzed

    lovmyzed Member

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    and just to add a completely opposite opinion, because what would be the point in getting a simple answer that appears straight forward.

    I think the centre hub is simply to allow easier alignment of the wheels on the studs, nothing more. From my way of thinking if the centre hub were to take any load then the tolerances for fitment would have to be such that the wheels would need to be pressed on the hubs.

    Of course as allways google shows opinions floating both ways, but here is a link to someone with a similar opinion to mine :)
    [https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-and-lug-centric-wheels.764338/#post-4812660]


    To save you the click, the relevant comments:
    and

    You will note it is a physics site, so the opinion must be bordering on fact :rofl:

    So in short, don't really think spacers are going to fix the OPs vibration issues, unless your wheel is not centered on the studs.
     
  12. SuperZ

    SuperZ Resident Z lunatic

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    Seems the physics guys are over calculating the theory and not considering real world engineering application/s

    Here is some differing views

    http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=152939

    http://tires.about.com/od/understanding_wheels/a/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric-wheels.htm


    My father was a mag wheel and tyre fitter expert for many years (25+) and my brother was a mag wheel specialist for about 10 yrs - both told me a long time ago the centre hub is there to carry the vertical weight as anti stated.


    Makes sense to me given the engineering force required to break it is huge whereas a bolt is generally used for clamping purposes in engineering. The ring is fairly accurate given its short length and so a weight bearing load effect can be achieved easily (if it was 30mm wide lip it would be hard to get off then!) It doesn't require much lip to achieve a huge weight bearing load - do the calculations.


    Just like climate change, there are always skeptics with anything :bash:, been laughed at before over this - haha :D


    Not a fan of spacers in the first place - adding weight to the wheel is a last resort - and as anti points out - you need the right set or you risk losing everything

    JC



    :zlove:
     
  13. Anti

    Anti 14.7 x 14.7 = 44.1

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    Nothing wrong at all with spacers done right.
     
  14. Stef

    Stef Active Member

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    What tyres have you got ?
    Cheap and nasty Chinese ones may balance perfectly but still wobble a bit sideways. This will cause vibrations.

    Jack the front up and spin the wheels and watch from the front.
     
  15. Luke300

    Luke300 Member

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    Just for peace of mind check your front tie rods.
    I had wobbles after so many wheel alinements and balancing and it turned out to be my tie rod so replaced them and its perfect.
     
  16. geron

    geron National Petroleum Equipm

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    Out of round tyres? This is done with a simple visual inspection while spinning the wheel and looking at the tyre side on. Even If they are a little bit out of round = vibration. Been there with new tyres only to drive a few kms and returned them due to this very issue. Another brand and no vibrations. I found it amazing and lesson learnt since then. Never had an issue with any of my cars since.
    And all it takes is just a little bit out of round. They might balance perfectly but cannot cure out of round since it's a tyre problem from manufacturing.

    Also, I avoid locking the brakes and spinning tyres of fear of creating a flat spot on them and causing steering wheel or vibration in general, although the rear tyres I don't believe is a major issue but still avoid it.
     
  17. graysonvario

    graysonvario New Member

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    New wheels - different brand tyre - no spacers - still wheels shake
     
  18. graysonvario

    graysonvario New Member

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    My money is on this
     
  19. SuperZ

    SuperZ Resident Z lunatic

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    wheel bearings would show up with play?

    Have you checked each wheel for any play yet? :confused:


    There is not much left other than an alignment
     
  20. SuperZ

    SuperZ Resident Z lunatic

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    In your opinion :p
     

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