Suspension Geometry / Setup

ZXTA5Y · 13-01-2010, 01:57 PM

Hi Guys,

I thought it would be useful for guys who use there Zed's on the track to share their experiences of different Suspension Geometry / Setup's.

I know John at UAS has done a lot of work in this area, knowledge which I'm sure we could all benefit from.

psycodelik · 13-01-2010, 02:37 PM

my setup was for street and drift.

Brakes
front
TT calipers with big brake adapters.
324mm RDA slitted rotors
EBC greenstuff pads
rear
RDA slotted rotors
EBC greenstuff pads

Fronts
17x9" +20 offets with 235/45 Federal 595's
Tein flex coilovers set to full stiff
Adjustable camber arms 3 degrees camber
Adjustable rose jointed toe rods
Strut Brace

Rear
17x10.5" +25 with 255/45 Federal 595's
Tein Flex Coilovers set to full stiff
adjustable camber arms 0.5 degrees camber
Strut Brace

With Shimmed diff

i found that i had a stack of understeer, after shimming the diff it was worse (duh)
the back didnt have a tendance at all to swing out unless i tapped the handbrake.
little to no body roll with the car responsing well to any steering movements.

Big_al_TT92ZX · 13-01-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycodelik

my setup was for street and drift.

Brakes
front
TT calipers with big brake adapters.
324mm RDA slitted rotors
EBC greenstuff pads
rear
RDA slotted rotors
EBC greenstuff pads

Fronts
17x9" +20 offets with 235/45 Federal 595's
Tein flex coilovers set to full stiff
Adjustable camber arms 3 degrees camber
Adjustable rose jointed toe rods
Strut Brace

Rear
17x10.5" +25 with 255/45 Federal 595's
Tein Flex Coilovers set to full stiff
adjustable camber arms 0.5 degrees camber
Strut Brace

With Shimmed diff

i found that i had a stack of understeer, after shimming the diff it was worse (duh)
the back didnt have a tendance at all to swing out unless i tapped the handbrake.
little to no body roll with the car responsing well to any steering movements.

Maybe you could soften up the rebound on your Tein Flex up front, having them fully wound up will increase understeer.
Also you don't have adjustable Sways like Whiteline's or Stillen's? You can adjust the preload on them to make the car push to the outside a bit more on the rear with them if that's what you're looking for.

Big_al_TT92ZX · 13-01-2010, 08:12 PM

On the MR2oc.com forum they recommend 8-10 degrees of front castor to help with turn-in. New model M3's and AMG's apparently come standard with approximately that amount of positive castor.
Camber will help with mid-corner stability more than turn-in, so keep that in mind.

Wizard · 13-01-2010, 08:22 PM

at page 9 in the motorsport section on the UAS site, info there.
http://www.uniqueautosports.com.au/

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZXTA5Y

Hi Guys,

I thought it would be useful for guys who use there Zed's on the track to share their experiences of different Suspension Geometry / Setup's.

I know John at UAS has done a lot of work in this area, knowledge which I'm sure we could all benefit from.

ZXTA5Y · 15-01-2010, 09:33 PM

Am running in the Targa Time Attack at AHG in Perth on Sunday, had my UAS front camber arms fitted today by WA Suspension so looking forward to seeing how they go.

Setting are:

Front Left Front Right

Camber -3.8 -3.8
Caster 10.1 9.4
Toe -1.0mm -1.0mm

Rear Left Rear Right

Camber -1.6 -1.7
Toe 0.5mm 0.4mm

Race is 3 runs of the road circuit, 1 lap is 1km+ and its 3 laps per run.

Big_al_TT92ZX · 16-01-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZXTA5Y

Am running in the Targa Time Attack at AHG in Perth on Sunday, had my UAS front camber arms fitted today by WA Suspension so looking forward to seeing how they go.

Setting are:

Front Left Front Right

Camber -3.8 -3.8
Caster 10.1 9.4
Toe -1.0mm -1.0mm

Rear Left Rear Right

Camber -1.6 -1.7
Toe 0.5mm 0.4mm

Race is 3 runs of the road circuit, 1 lap is 1km+ and its 3 laps per run.

Awesome, sounds like WA Suspension did a proper job, wish you all the best, keep everyone posted on how all these changes affect the car I'm pretty curious!

ZXTA5Y · 21-01-2010, 03:35 PM

Suspension settings and new UAS front camber arms worked really well.

Quit Targa West Winner 2009 (GTR35 Full Race Spec + Fulltime Pro Driver) - 175 seconds (3 laps)

I ran 202 seconds for my 3 laps.

Worked out the GTR35 was about 9 seconds a lap quicker.

At present I'm not running light weight wheels and am running medium quality semi slicks but not R comp tyres and the Zed is an N/A so all things considered I'm pretty happy with the results of the race.

Light weight wheels and r comp tyres next on the list + new upgrade brake package.

UNIQUE ZED · 30-01-2010, 12:51 PM

Most would be faster by raising their cars as without changing roll centre geometry in the car you go backwards lowering it. Looks good and what most don't want to hear but....

ZEDZY · 30-01-2010, 01:10 PM

My car handled far better with a clost to stock ride height.

Thats not stopping me from lowering the car even more.

UNIQUE ZED · 03-02-2010, 02:33 PM

Exactly as it transfers weight better, and less sudden, basically more mechanical grip. Plus absorbs bumps better as it shouldn't bottom out as can do if too low.
Problem is most people think it must be good as theylook at V8 Supercars, or highly modified race cars like mine, which have a very low static height, but have had major surgery done to have suspension pivot points raised. So roll centre is higher and correct height with the car lowered. My car is low yet higher than some other zeds I have seen with stock set up. It looks good and better in some ways as lower centre of gravity and better aero, although BAD for roll centre which is way too low and often bad for shocks as they can bottom out and can get damaged especially if not coil over?s with adjustable bases.

ports · 03-02-2010, 04:21 PM

Sage words indeed John.

I have been familarising myself on this topic from a manual written by Fred Puhn.

mungyz · 04-02-2010, 04:40 PM

Yip low & heavy = bad
Mine sits with very flat lower arms with just myself in there, add another person ~ 70Kgs and it sits just that little bit lower.
The extra weight & the change in angles on the lower arms creates massive body roll in comparison to just by myself.

As the fuel tank empties there is less roll also - but this is as much lack of grip in the rear as less mass etc.

Examples:

Start of day full gas tank two people on board:

Nearing the end of the day low on gas & flying solo:

Very near the same speed

Sanouske · 05-02-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mungyz

Yip low & heavy = bad
Mine sits with very flat lower arms with just myself in there, add another person ~ 70Kgs and it sits just that little bit lower.
The extra weight & the change in angles on the lower arms creates massive body roll in comparison to just by myself.

As the fuel tank empties there is less roll also - but this is as much lack of grip in the rear as less mass etc.

Examples:

Start of day full gas tank two people on board:

Nearing the end of the day low on gas & flying solo:

Very near the same speed

Thats a beautiful looking zed you have there.

mungyz · 24-05-2010, 07:56 PM

Anyone else here purchased these for their track car?

Some fairly alarming things found when mine arrived, we got two full sets across knowing full well you get what you pay for & were prepared for some work to make them usable. But after disassembly & sand blasting I found:

The threads are loose in the arms - enough that I am concerned they may pull out! (will test prior to use).

The quality of tube used in construction is very poor, some of the tubes are porous & others look like they have been left outside for years to rust, then sand blasted & used to make the arms.

The quality of the welding is well below par - one arm actually had a complete weld missing!

The design of the front arms is very poor, the thread for the main rod end is welded to the main tube & then the weld is ground flush - fine except there is not enough penetration from the weld giving a very poor joint.
The outer end of the tube is crushed far to much where it joins to the boss for the spherical bearing, this creates a very weak area that is likely to fold when exposed to heavy loads.

I have cleaned up the welds on both sets, added some stiffening to the weak areas on the front arms & painted the arms in black & the other set silver (for my car). I am still not to certain about the threads etc & may actually load test them prior to fitting (put about 1500Kgs tension load on them & see what happens).

They are NOT high quality items & we didn't expect them to be but they are bordering on being unusable.

Any others got these/
Your thoughts?

BLACK BEAST · 24-05-2010, 08:13 PM

this why I went with IKEYA

expensive but dont regret it .

BGTV8 · 24-05-2010, 09:12 PM

Mungyz

I have purchased a set of these items for our TT track car and am similarly disappointed with the quality once we had them glass-bead blasted - certainly not what I would have expected. I doubt these would pass an engineering inspection for use in a road car ...

I have passed the examples I purchased to a safety engineer (VicRoads accredited) from a formal opinion. We will be inspecting the type of metal used, the weld quality and the quality of the spherical bearings. If the report comes back as I expect, I will be returning the goods for a refund or replacement based on "fit for purpose" provisions under the TPA (Aus Trade Practise Act). Should the inspection result cofirm that the parts are indeed serviceable, I will post that as well.

RB

Tektrader · 24-05-2010, 10:52 PM

I have a set if these front arms I havent used yet. I will be keen to see what your investigations find.

Mine are not to use on the road. But I dont want a wheel falling off on the track either,

BiGZ · 25-05-2010, 01:32 AM

Anyone know the stock ride height?

mungyz · 25-05-2010, 06:37 AM

Cheers BGTV8 the results would be very much appreciated.
I sent an e mail to Japtek and asked:

Hi
I purchased two full sets of these arms a while ago via paypal.

I am in the process of trying to get them certified for use on my road car & have run into a bit of a problem. Apparently our laws have changed a little & things are now a little tougher for getting these types of things approved.
I have to answer these questions from the certifying engineer:

Do they have any type approvals etc?
Have they complied with any ISO standards or suchlike?
Am I able to have a receipt to at least show the engineers I purchased these rather than made them myself.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Glenn.

The reply was:

Hi Glen,
These arms were never intended to be used on road.
No they have not complied with any ISO standards.

Sure, I'll email you a copy friday when i'm back in the office.

Helpful enough & replied in good time so no complaint about the service but honestly even after doing pretty much all you could do to strengthen these - I'm worried the wheels are going to fall off the cart

Maybe I will chop them up & use the good bits to build my own arms with high quality tube etc, increase the diameter while I'm at it.

Mungyz lower arms anyone?

13-01-2010, 01:57 PM	#1
ZXTA5Y Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Perth Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Suspension Geometry / Setup Hi Guys, I thought it would be useful for guys who use there Zed's on the track to share their experiences of different Suspension Geometry / Setup's. I know John at UAS has done a lot of work in this area, knowledge which I'm sure we could all benefit from.

13-01-2010, 02:37 PM	#2
psycodelik psyco led's Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New South Wales Thanks: 5 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	my setup was for street and drift. Brakes front TT calipers with big brake adapters. 324mm RDA slitted rotors EBC greenstuff pads rear RDA slotted rotors EBC greenstuff pads Fronts 17x9" +20 offets with 235/45 Federal 595's Tein flex coilovers set to full stiff Adjustable camber arms 3 degrees camber Adjustable rose jointed toe rods Strut Brace Rear 17x10.5" +25 with 255/45 Federal 595's Tein Flex Coilovers set to full stiff adjustable camber arms 0.5 degrees camber Strut Brace With Shimmed diff i found that i had a stack of understeer, after shimming the diff it was worse (duh) the back didnt have a tendance at all to swing out unless i tapped the handbrake. little to no body roll with the car responsing well to any steering movements. __________________ As Unique as Light can get

13-01-2010, 08:12 PM	#4
Big_al_TT92ZX Back on the road @ 12psi Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne Thanks: 84 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	On the MR2oc.com forum they recommend 8-10 degrees of front castor to help with turn-in. New model M3's and AMG's apparently come standard with approximately that amount of positive castor. Camber will help with mid-corner stability more than turn-in, so keep that in mind. __________________

15-01-2010, 09:33 PM	#6
ZXTA5Y Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Perth Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just picked my Zed up ready for the race on Sunday Am running in the Targa Time Attack at AHG in Perth on Sunday, had my UAS front camber arms fitted today by WA Suspension so looking forward to seeing how they go. Setting are: Front Left Front Right Camber -3.8 -3.8 Caster 10.1 9.4 Toe -1.0mm -1.0mm Rear Left Rear Right Camber -1.6 -1.7 Toe 0.5mm 0.4mm Race is 3 runs of the road circuit, 1 lap is 1km+ and its 3 laps per run.

30-01-2010, 12:51 PM	#9
UNIQUE ZED Zed Racing World Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sydney Thanks: 2 Thanked 55 Times in 33 Posts	Most would be faster by raising their cars as without changing roll centre geometry in the car you go backwards lowering it. Looks good and what most don't want to hear but.... __________________ John Penlington Unique Auto Sports www.300zx.com.au

21-01-2010, 03:35 PM	#8
ZXTA5Y Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Perth Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Suspension settings and new UAS front camber arms worked really well. Quit Targa West Winner 2009 (GTR35 Full Race Spec + Fulltime Pro Driver) - 175 seconds (3 laps) I ran 202 seconds for my 3 laps. Worked out the GTR35 was about 9 seconds a lap quicker. At present I'm not running light weight wheels and am running medium quality semi slicks but not R comp tyres and the Zed is an N/A so all things considered I'm pretty happy with the results of the race. Light weight wheels and r comp tyres next on the list + new upgrade brake package.

30-01-2010, 01:10 PM	#10
ZEDZY Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Queensland Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	My car handled far better with a clost to stock ride height. Thats not stopping me from lowering the car even more. __________________ GARAGE HOME GARAGE HOME GARAGE HOME My Car is like a jigsaw. I put it together one expensive piece at a time.

03-02-2010, 02:33 PM	#11
UNIQUE ZED Zed Racing World Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sydney Thanks: 2 Thanked 55 Times in 33 Posts	Exactly as it transfers weight better, and less sudden, basically more mechanical grip. Plus absorbs bumps better as it shouldn't bottom out as can do if too low. Problem is most people think it must be good as theylook at V8 Supercars, or highly modified race cars like mine, which have a very low static height, but have had major surgery done to have suspension pivot points raised. So roll centre is higher and correct height with the car lowered. My car is low yet higher than some other zeds I have seen with stock set up. It looks good and better in some ways as lower centre of gravity and better aero, although BAD for roll centre which is way too low and often bad for shocks as they can bottom out and can get damaged especially if not coil over?s with adjustable bases. __________________ John Penlington Unique Auto Sports www.300zx.com.au

03-02-2010, 04:21 PM	#12
ports the pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: south west Sydney 1992 TT manual Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 2 Posts	Sage words indeed John. I have been familarising myself on this topic from a manual written by Fred Puhn. __________________ Beer Talk Racing

04-02-2010, 04:40 PM	#13
mungyz Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hamilton New Zealand Thanks: 2 Thanked 40 Times in 33 Posts	Yip low & heavy = bad Mine sits with very flat lower arms with just myself in there, add another person ~ 70Kgs and it sits just that little bit lower. The extra weight & the change in angles on the lower arms creates massive body roll in comparison to just by myself. As the fuel tank empties there is less roll also - but this is as much lack of grip in the rear as less mass etc. Examples: Start of day full gas tank two people on board: Nearing the end of the day low on gas & flying solo: Very near the same speed

24-05-2010, 07:56 PM	#15
mungyz Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hamilton New Zealand Thanks: 2 Thanked 40 Times in 33 Posts	Japtek lower control arms Anyone else here purchased these for their track car? Some fairly alarming things found when mine arrived, we got two full sets across knowing full well you get what you pay for & were prepared for some work to make them usable. But after disassembly & sand blasting I found: The threads are loose in the arms - enough that I am concerned they may pull out! (will test prior to use). The quality of tube used in construction is very poor, some of the tubes are porous & others look like they have been left outside for years to rust, then sand blasted & used to make the arms. The quality of the welding is well below par - one arm actually had a complete weld missing! The design of the front arms is very poor, the thread for the main rod end is welded to the main tube & then the weld is ground flush - fine except there is not enough penetration from the weld giving a very poor joint. The outer end of the tube is crushed far to much where it joins to the boss for the spherical bearing, this creates a very weak area that is likely to fold when exposed to heavy loads. I have cleaned up the welds on both sets, added some stiffening to the weak areas on the front arms & painted the arms in black & the other set silver (for my car). I am still not to certain about the threads etc & may actually load test them prior to fitting (put about 1500Kgs tension load on them & see what happens). They are NOT high quality items & we didn't expect them to be but they are bordering on being unusable. Any others got these/ Your thoughts?

24-05-2010, 08:13 PM	#16
BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sydney Thanks: 38 Thanked 89 Times in 72 Posts	this why I went with IKEYA expensive but dont regret it . __________________ 348.5 RWKW (467RWHP)..Standard Turbo Housings ??? RWKW .. ..............GT28RS ARE HERE !! Oversteer is when the passenger is scared, Understeer is when the driver is scared!

24-05-2010, 09:12 PM	#17
BGTV8 Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Victoria Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 10 Posts	Mungyz I have purchased a set of these items for our TT track car and am similarly disappointed with the quality once we had them glass-bead blasted - certainly not what I would have expected. I doubt these would pass an engineering inspection for use in a road car ... I have passed the examples I purchased to a safety engineer (VicRoads accredited) from a formal opinion. We will be inspecting the type of metal used, the weld quality and the quality of the spherical bearings. If the report comes back as I expect, I will be returning the goods for a refund or replacement based on "fit for purpose" provisions under the TPA (Aus Trade Practise Act). Should the inspection result cofirm that the parts are indeed serviceable, I will post that as well. RB

24-05-2010, 10:52 PM	#18
Tektrader Z32 Hoe, service me baby Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Victoria Thanks: 26 Thanked 135 Times in 106 Posts	I have a set if these front arms I havent used yet. I will be keen to see what your investigations find. Mine are not to use on the road. But I dont want a wheel falling off on the track either, __________________

25-05-2010, 01:32 AM	#19
BiGZ Iridescent Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Anyone know the stock ride height? __________________ GFB hybrid Bovs \| PWR Twin pass rad \| PZP FMIC \| Racing Logic Coilovers \| AMS Manifolds \| Z1 600R Turbo Kit \| Apex pod filter \| GReddy Profec b spec 2 @ 17 psi \| Nistune ecu \| Front/Rear RDA slotted rotors \| N-power dumps \|Rear Strut Brace \| Stillen Short Shifter \| One-piece tailshaft \| Nismo 555cc Injectors

25-05-2010, 06:37 AM	#20
mungyz Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hamilton New Zealand Thanks: 2 Thanked 40 Times in 33 Posts	Cheers BGTV8 the results would be very much appreciated. I sent an e mail to Japtek and asked: Hi I purchased two full sets of these arms a while ago via paypal. I am in the process of trying to get them certified for use on my road car & have run into a bit of a problem. Apparently our laws have changed a little & things are now a little tougher for getting these types of things approved. I have to answer these questions from the certifying engineer: Do they have any type approvals etc? Have they complied with any ISO standards or suchlike? Am I able to have a receipt to at least show the engineers I purchased these rather than made them myself. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards Glenn. The reply was: Hi Glen, These arms were never intended to be used on road. No they have not complied with any ISO standards. Sure, I'll email you a copy friday when i'm back in the office. Helpful enough & replied in good time so no complaint about the service but honestly even after doing pretty much all you could do to strengthen these - I'm worried the wheels are going to fall off the cart Maybe I will chop them up & use the good bits to build my own arms with high quality tube etc, increase the diameter while I'm at it. Mungyz lower arms anyone?

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